As an Ex-pat living in England, I’m thankful I live in a community where this sort of concern isn’t hotly debated every other week. Well done Dan - top argument and as always great work at threading modern issues with historical backing.
I have never been to America and looking in from the outside it seems an insane place to be.
I wrote the below the night of the school shooting as the news was breaking here in the UK. It is part of a longer piece but I won't bore you all with that
1996 Dunblane. Thomas Hamilton walked into Dunblane primary school and shot dead 16 pupils and their teacher. The repercussions of that day were that guns were in effect banned in the UK for private ownership. Yes there are still guns out there but highly regulated. Even the illegal ones out there are highly unlikely to be used in a mass school shooting.
America - it works. We are still free to live our lives in the UK in relative safety. I don't need to have a gun in my house. I don't need to carry one on me. I am highly unlikely to see one. Police don't need to carry them unless they are specially trained in the armed response units. Guess what? Nothing bad happens in terms of our liberties and statutory rights because of that. Eliminate the gun and it doesn't matter if the person is good or bad (to paraphrase Charlton Heston).
Thank you James. Well written. I think the problem is that many Americans, simply, cannot imagine the world you describe- a world without guns. It is so, SO, so common in this country to have a house with guns that many people see it as inevitable (so why take guns away from the people who can handle them?) or something to be proud of and celebrate (it makes us ‘tough’, ‘special’, etc).
I’m not defending it; just making an observation on what I’ve seen in my 44 yrs in this country.
The gun culture over here has jumped the shark and is so embedded into so many political and personal ideologies, I’m not sure there is a way to get to what you describe. 😏
After Dunblane in 1996, the UK laws were passed in 1997 to in effect ban hand guns and private ownership. They were rushed through such was the response to the tragedy, that olympic shooters were limited to what they could own.
I think I saw the other day there have been over 200 mass shooting events in the US so far this year. In the UK there have been 5 in the last 35 years.
Trust me, I have no standing to talk Americans about this. My little idiotic voice also will not hold anything against the pro 2nd amendment lobbyists. But thank you for your kind words.
I live in the US. What happened last week and in the many that preceeded this event, is disgusting, demoralizing, and purely evil. Arming teachers, everyday citizens, etc with firearms is not the answer. Funding our police and training the police in addition to providing them with proper equipment would at least assure a professional, quick response. Perhaps all local law/fire enforcement agencies should have keys and blueprints to the local schools and community centers, at least then they have the advantage of knowledge. The Second Amendment will always be a forerunner in political arguments, and set aside once the tears are shed for those innocent souls lost. A return to assault weapons bans and increasing the age to 21 may help reduce some of the violence. You can't buy a beer at 18, but you can buy a weapon solely designed to kill people. I am not as eloquent as Dan, or most of the other commenters, but I had to say something. God bless those families and those dear children.
Valerie, you touch on some common misconceptions. Where I lived until recently the police and sheriffs had schematics of all the schools and community centers in my Southern California county. I don’t know about the keys. Also, in many locations, youth can buy beer (3.2) at age 18. Not terribly relevant to the issue, but you might want to know.
A very well thought-out essay, Dan. I am American. I think the vast amount of my fellow countrymen believe that society wouldn't work if everyone on the block had a mounted machine gun on their roofs. However, most probably believe that society probably would work if well-trained people, who felt safer with protection, could own a firearm. The problem, of course, is where to draw the line between an acceptable weapon and owner and an unacceptable weapon and owner. There have been bans on assault rifles before in the USA and they have worked. It's time for such a ban to be imposed again. There should also be a ban on bullet technologies that are designed to kill only. I'd sleep much better if there were no guns at all but there is a modicum of truth to the old NRA adage, "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns." Let's put sensible gun control in place that keeps small children from being killed, especially in places where they should feel safe. Enough is enough. Thanks for caring and giving some sensible context to a difficult topic.
And naturally the root of this evil is money. Just google how much money US politicians receive in donations from the NRA. These people are literally being paid to stop any form of gun control. And it's working. Their answer to any tragedy involving guns (mass shootings, etc.) is always "more guns!!". It's insane.
Disclaimer - I live in Canada, where there are approximately 23.8 guns per 100 people, or around 10 million guns (2014 numbers). But we have fairly sensible gun laws. Our Prime Minister introduced legislation on Monday to freeze importing, buying or selling handguns. (I don't think our laws go far enough, but that's a personal opinion) I think the difference is that gun ownership in Canada is a privilege, not a right.
You have described it exactly: insane and well funded. And has created a culture of righteous bullying. Pity those of us who've tried to have conversations with these heavily armed folks.
In a nation w 393 million firearms, seems the U.S. does pretty OK overall if one takes time to dig hard into crime data, parse out suicides, and objectively look at the fuller picture. We have sick bastards who, knowing they can get lotsa media coverage, do horrible things w weapons to avenge their sense of alienation by others. Young males who are clearly falling through the cracks, ignored, mocked, abused. The gun lobby usually doesn't have to work hard, either, for gun sales. Crime waves from bad policies, such as the one the U.S. is currently experiencing, matched w the 2020 lawlessness and rioting permitted by local govts in the name of social justice and to create as much havoc as possible for an election year (and whose DA's furthered the crime wave by turning criminals right back on the streets), sells guns best of all. Over 5 milliion sold since 2020. Consider it part of a price to be paid for removing Trump. And these aren't just crazy rednecks in the hills buying up pieces. Couple this with 1970s and 80s deinstitutionalization and a belief that criminally insane can be out w the rest of us if they remember to take a pill or two or three. Gun sales indicate a society that doesn't feel it can rely on law enforcement and justice system, to be frank. While at home in 2020 because of pandemic watching cities burn, people became nervous. Or during crime waves in the 1970s and 80s, the same. A bit like insecurity felt in 1790 perhaps? Incidentally, gun crime, the most consistent of it, is worst in locations w the most gun restrictions. Hence, ownership by urban minorities is up. So, maybe the whole matter's a bit deeper, complicated, and comprehensive than an 18th century Amendment. Insightful essay though re Tyler that summed up the historical roots well.
Many of your points are right out of Fox News. Having been in Portland during its supposed 'burning' phase, I can clarify that it amounted to a trash bin on fire downtown that was put out within 30min and two small office trash cans in buildings elsewhere. Other burning objects were deterrents thrown by police. But Fox and the Trump family did something despicable. With headlines about our protests that read 'Portland is Burning' and related fabrications about 'antifa' they used video footage of Oregon and California wildfires to give a completely false image of the city. This continued all summer. Friends & relatives kept calling, afraid we were burning to the ground and surrounded by antifa. Right wing media is in bed with the NRA. The more fear they create, the bigger the audience --and gun sales will go up because of that manipulation.
But, so many of these shootings happened before 2020. And, most shooters were/are not diagnosed mentally ill (exception: James Holmes. He has schizophrenia).
OK, had to do a quick read before I leave for an appointment but let me say this now. I can't believe how often over the last couple of years, Jan 6 in particular that I have thought of 1381 and old Wat Tyler in regards to this great/terrible country where I live. The last paragraph is perhaps, for me, the best thing that you've ever written because it is 100% spot on. I can't wait to get back and read it again. Thanks
I would like to share this with my hard-line friends and relatives. As an elected official frequently meeting in high-value target situations, I obtained a concealed-carry permit and did carry in those circumstances. I seldom carry now, though there is currently a lock-down at a hospital and medical center just three miles from my home and where three of my doctors have offices, apparently with four dead and an unknown number wounded. This is the reality here and now in the USA. I’m watching the events unfolding on local TV as I write this. I’m hopeful we can at least restrict AR-style purchase and possession for those under 21, who are frequently the perpetrators in these situations.
I do have an interest in English common law, and how even really old laws, whether they are still valid or not. All states in the US states, except one state, base their laws off of English Common Law. (Bonus points if you know what the exception is) Apparently, the phrase Rule of Thumb comes from a bad law. Reading the Riot Act comes from another law. I know Magna Carta had influenced laws. We have US Supreme Court justices quoting a judge who went after accused witches. As much as we think that some laws and legal traditions are gone, they seem to come up. I don't mean to bloviate. But, I find our legal traditions interesting.
Dan, it's a sensitive topic and my opinion is a bit similar to yours, so I don't want to delve further. However, after reading your post I kept thinking about what is happening here in Peru, and how something similar to the law of Winchester is still in force.
In the small high Andean and Amazonian communities far away from the cities, where justice and police forces are corrupt, scarce, or even non-existent, the villages organize themselves into something they call ‘rondas’ for looking after their own. The ronderos are basically neighbors who take turns to watch day and night in places where cattle rustling, domestic violence, rape, narcotrafic, and terrorist attacks are frequent. They carry any type of bladed weapons for self-defense, even poisoned arrows (here only police, militaries and private security agencies can carry firearms, but carry bladed weapon it´s not a crime ). When a criminal is caught, the community judges him quickly and applies punishments that can range from whipping to even death. Incredibly, the State has tacitly recognized these organizations since 1970. Of course there have been excesses, and it´s only there that the Police act, normally without success. The problem here is the complete absence of a central government.
Good try. I’m not sure you have any idea how anti-historical and anti intellectual it is here. And I live in New England. Guns are a religion in the US - no discussion possible from my point of view.
I agree. Those that fetishize their guns honestly don't care that people get killed, their 2A rights are more important to them than lives. The NRA and other organizations routinely put out bad-faith arguments and talking points about mental health (which they don't want to fund with taxes and universal healthcare), school security (arm teachers....yeah those same people against whom snitch-lines were set up to report teaching about "CRT" or "the gay agenda"), and "good guys with guns/back the blue" (wow, those brave good guys stood outside while children were getting killed...how useful). This is all distraction because they don't want to publicly admit they don't give a shit about anyone else. A well-reasoned argument by a "liberal elite," especially, won't go anywhere. The gun-nuts (who also tend to be Christo-Fascists) only look to history (and the Bible) when trying to legislate in their own favor by a cherry-picking a particular text, taken out of its larger historical context. I mean one of our SCOTUS justices just quoted Hale (good ol' witch-burner, keeping the women-folk in their place) as part of his argument to outlaw abortion. It is all the same reactionary, well-funded minority trying to turn back the clock.
I'm lacing my camomile tea with THC while diligently studying Hangul. I cannot control the laws of this country, but I can control where I live. Language proficiency is THE key, for anyone in a similar predicament. Americans are generally welcomed abroad for our work ethic, optimism, and creativity. Therefore Americans with foreign languages are considered an asset.
Here's hoping I don't get gunned down before I'm ready to take the State Department's Hangul proficiency exam! For any Americans interested in working and living abroad, the State Dept is your best resource. ❤️
As a citizen of New Zealand its really hard to get a license to own and keep a gun. You have to pass an interview with the police, have your doctor clear that you don't have to have a history of mental illness, pass a gun handling skills test and reference checks. I know this as I don't have a gun but growing up on a farm my brothers did. We do have low gun crime rates as a result. However to be fair trying to get from a society where gun ownership is widespread and in every ones hand to a state where gun ownership is strictly regulated and controlled is not going to be easy. Passing gun ownership restrictions in the USA will mean that those law abiding citizens who are probably good gun owners will give up their weapons but are those people who are both criminal or irresponsible going to give up their guns as a result of this? Probably not and they are the problem in the first place. And is a society where gun ownership is still widespread but in the hands of the lawless and irresponsible that much safer than where it is more often in the hands of law abiding citizens and less often in the lawless? I'm not sure it is. If you started with a clean slate and only gave weapons to those who were responsible you would have a safe society but that isn't where the US is starting from. Secondly if you do want to be able to remove people's guns the state has to honour its committment to keep its citizens safe. Riots like we have seen in the US over the past two years where shops are looted, vandalised and people are assaulted encourage more people to buy guns, they don't give people confidence to feel safe giving up their weapons.
As an Ex-pat living in England, I’m thankful I live in a community where this sort of concern isn’t hotly debated every other week. Well done Dan - top argument and as always great work at threading modern issues with historical backing.
I have never been to America and looking in from the outside it seems an insane place to be.
I wrote the below the night of the school shooting as the news was breaking here in the UK. It is part of a longer piece but I won't bore you all with that
1996 Dunblane. Thomas Hamilton walked into Dunblane primary school and shot dead 16 pupils and their teacher. The repercussions of that day were that guns were in effect banned in the UK for private ownership. Yes there are still guns out there but highly regulated. Even the illegal ones out there are highly unlikely to be used in a mass school shooting.
America - it works. We are still free to live our lives in the UK in relative safety. I don't need to have a gun in my house. I don't need to carry one on me. I am highly unlikely to see one. Police don't need to carry them unless they are specially trained in the armed response units. Guess what? Nothing bad happens in terms of our liberties and statutory rights because of that. Eliminate the gun and it doesn't matter if the person is good or bad (to paraphrase Charlton Heston).
Thank you James. Well written. I think the problem is that many Americans, simply, cannot imagine the world you describe- a world without guns. It is so, SO, so common in this country to have a house with guns that many people see it as inevitable (so why take guns away from the people who can handle them?) or something to be proud of and celebrate (it makes us ‘tough’, ‘special’, etc).
I’m not defending it; just making an observation on what I’ve seen in my 44 yrs in this country.
The gun culture over here has jumped the shark and is so embedded into so many political and personal ideologies, I’m not sure there is a way to get to what you describe. 😏
It can be done if there is want for it.
After Dunblane in 1996, the UK laws were passed in 1997 to in effect ban hand guns and private ownership. They were rushed through such was the response to the tragedy, that olympic shooters were limited to what they could own.
I think I saw the other day there have been over 200 mass shooting events in the US so far this year. In the UK there have been 5 in the last 35 years.
Thank you. I wish my fellow Americans could hear this. The perspective of an outsider would likely be more effective.
Trust me, I have no standing to talk Americans about this. My little idiotic voice also will not hold anything against the pro 2nd amendment lobbyists. But thank you for your kind words.
One of my favorite pieces you've written - and that bar was already set pretty high. Thank you.
I live in the US. What happened last week and in the many that preceeded this event, is disgusting, demoralizing, and purely evil. Arming teachers, everyday citizens, etc with firearms is not the answer. Funding our police and training the police in addition to providing them with proper equipment would at least assure a professional, quick response. Perhaps all local law/fire enforcement agencies should have keys and blueprints to the local schools and community centers, at least then they have the advantage of knowledge. The Second Amendment will always be a forerunner in political arguments, and set aside once the tears are shed for those innocent souls lost. A return to assault weapons bans and increasing the age to 21 may help reduce some of the violence. You can't buy a beer at 18, but you can buy a weapon solely designed to kill people. I am not as eloquent as Dan, or most of the other commenters, but I had to say something. God bless those families and those dear children.
Valerie, you touch on some common misconceptions. Where I lived until recently the police and sheriffs had schematics of all the schools and community centers in my Southern California county. I don’t know about the keys. Also, in many locations, youth can buy beer (3.2) at age 18. Not terribly relevant to the issue, but you might want to know.
A very well thought-out essay, Dan. I am American. I think the vast amount of my fellow countrymen believe that society wouldn't work if everyone on the block had a mounted machine gun on their roofs. However, most probably believe that society probably would work if well-trained people, who felt safer with protection, could own a firearm. The problem, of course, is where to draw the line between an acceptable weapon and owner and an unacceptable weapon and owner. There have been bans on assault rifles before in the USA and they have worked. It's time for such a ban to be imposed again. There should also be a ban on bullet technologies that are designed to kill only. I'd sleep much better if there were no guns at all but there is a modicum of truth to the old NRA adage, "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns." Let's put sensible gun control in place that keeps small children from being killed, especially in places where they should feel safe. Enough is enough. Thanks for caring and giving some sensible context to a difficult topic.
And naturally the root of this evil is money. Just google how much money US politicians receive in donations from the NRA. These people are literally being paid to stop any form of gun control. And it's working. Their answer to any tragedy involving guns (mass shootings, etc.) is always "more guns!!". It's insane.
Disclaimer - I live in Canada, where there are approximately 23.8 guns per 100 people, or around 10 million guns (2014 numbers). But we have fairly sensible gun laws. Our Prime Minister introduced legislation on Monday to freeze importing, buying or selling handguns. (I don't think our laws go far enough, but that's a personal opinion) I think the difference is that gun ownership in Canada is a privilege, not a right.
You have described it exactly: insane and well funded. And has created a culture of righteous bullying. Pity those of us who've tried to have conversations with these heavily armed folks.
In a nation w 393 million firearms, seems the U.S. does pretty OK overall if one takes time to dig hard into crime data, parse out suicides, and objectively look at the fuller picture. We have sick bastards who, knowing they can get lotsa media coverage, do horrible things w weapons to avenge their sense of alienation by others. Young males who are clearly falling through the cracks, ignored, mocked, abused. The gun lobby usually doesn't have to work hard, either, for gun sales. Crime waves from bad policies, such as the one the U.S. is currently experiencing, matched w the 2020 lawlessness and rioting permitted by local govts in the name of social justice and to create as much havoc as possible for an election year (and whose DA's furthered the crime wave by turning criminals right back on the streets), sells guns best of all. Over 5 milliion sold since 2020. Consider it part of a price to be paid for removing Trump. And these aren't just crazy rednecks in the hills buying up pieces. Couple this with 1970s and 80s deinstitutionalization and a belief that criminally insane can be out w the rest of us if they remember to take a pill or two or three. Gun sales indicate a society that doesn't feel it can rely on law enforcement and justice system, to be frank. While at home in 2020 because of pandemic watching cities burn, people became nervous. Or during crime waves in the 1970s and 80s, the same. A bit like insecurity felt in 1790 perhaps? Incidentally, gun crime, the most consistent of it, is worst in locations w the most gun restrictions. Hence, ownership by urban minorities is up. So, maybe the whole matter's a bit deeper, complicated, and comprehensive than an 18th century Amendment. Insightful essay though re Tyler that summed up the historical roots well.
Many of your points are right out of Fox News. Having been in Portland during its supposed 'burning' phase, I can clarify that it amounted to a trash bin on fire downtown that was put out within 30min and two small office trash cans in buildings elsewhere. Other burning objects were deterrents thrown by police. But Fox and the Trump family did something despicable. With headlines about our protests that read 'Portland is Burning' and related fabrications about 'antifa' they used video footage of Oregon and California wildfires to give a completely false image of the city. This continued all summer. Friends & relatives kept calling, afraid we were burning to the ground and surrounded by antifa. Right wing media is in bed with the NRA. The more fear they create, the bigger the audience --and gun sales will go up because of that manipulation.
You lie.
But, so many of these shootings happened before 2020. And, most shooters were/are not diagnosed mentally ill (exception: James Holmes. He has schizophrenia).
OK, had to do a quick read before I leave for an appointment but let me say this now. I can't believe how often over the last couple of years, Jan 6 in particular that I have thought of 1381 and old Wat Tyler in regards to this great/terrible country where I live. The last paragraph is perhaps, for me, the best thing that you've ever written because it is 100% spot on. I can't wait to get back and read it again. Thanks
I would like to share this with my hard-line friends and relatives. As an elected official frequently meeting in high-value target situations, I obtained a concealed-carry permit and did carry in those circumstances. I seldom carry now, though there is currently a lock-down at a hospital and medical center just three miles from my home and where three of my doctors have offices, apparently with four dead and an unknown number wounded. This is the reality here and now in the USA. I’m watching the events unfolding on local TV as I write this. I’m hopeful we can at least restrict AR-style purchase and possession for those under 21, who are frequently the perpetrators in these situations.
It’s the ultimate nightmare. And, after what happened to Gabby Giffords it is a brave act to serve in the public sphere.
There were generally armed guards around, but I felt safer knowing which fellow officials were also armed.
I do have an interest in English common law, and how even really old laws, whether they are still valid or not. All states in the US states, except one state, base their laws off of English Common Law. (Bonus points if you know what the exception is) Apparently, the phrase Rule of Thumb comes from a bad law. Reading the Riot Act comes from another law. I know Magna Carta had influenced laws. We have US Supreme Court justices quoting a judge who went after accused witches. As much as we think that some laws and legal traditions are gone, they seem to come up. I don't mean to bloviate. But, I find our legal traditions interesting.
Dan, it's a sensitive topic and my opinion is a bit similar to yours, so I don't want to delve further. However, after reading your post I kept thinking about what is happening here in Peru, and how something similar to the law of Winchester is still in force.
In the small high Andean and Amazonian communities far away from the cities, where justice and police forces are corrupt, scarce, or even non-existent, the villages organize themselves into something they call ‘rondas’ for looking after their own. The ronderos are basically neighbors who take turns to watch day and night in places where cattle rustling, domestic violence, rape, narcotrafic, and terrorist attacks are frequent. They carry any type of bladed weapons for self-defense, even poisoned arrows (here only police, militaries and private security agencies can carry firearms, but carry bladed weapon it´s not a crime ). When a criminal is caught, the community judges him quickly and applies punishments that can range from whipping to even death. Incredibly, the State has tacitly recognized these organizations since 1970. Of course there have been excesses, and it´s only there that the Police act, normally without success. The problem here is the complete absence of a central government.
Great article- I learned something new. Thanks Dan 👍🏻
Good try. I’m not sure you have any idea how anti-historical and anti intellectual it is here. And I live in New England. Guns are a religion in the US - no discussion possible from my point of view.
I agree. Those that fetishize their guns honestly don't care that people get killed, their 2A rights are more important to them than lives. The NRA and other organizations routinely put out bad-faith arguments and talking points about mental health (which they don't want to fund with taxes and universal healthcare), school security (arm teachers....yeah those same people against whom snitch-lines were set up to report teaching about "CRT" or "the gay agenda"), and "good guys with guns/back the blue" (wow, those brave good guys stood outside while children were getting killed...how useful). This is all distraction because they don't want to publicly admit they don't give a shit about anyone else. A well-reasoned argument by a "liberal elite," especially, won't go anywhere. The gun-nuts (who also tend to be Christo-Fascists) only look to history (and the Bible) when trying to legislate in their own favor by a cherry-picking a particular text, taken out of its larger historical context. I mean one of our SCOTUS justices just quoted Hale (good ol' witch-burner, keeping the women-folk in their place) as part of his argument to outlaw abortion. It is all the same reactionary, well-funded minority trying to turn back the clock.
I'm lacing my camomile tea with THC while diligently studying Hangul. I cannot control the laws of this country, but I can control where I live. Language proficiency is THE key, for anyone in a similar predicament. Americans are generally welcomed abroad for our work ethic, optimism, and creativity. Therefore Americans with foreign languages are considered an asset.
Here's hoping I don't get gunned down before I'm ready to take the State Department's Hangul proficiency exam! For any Americans interested in working and living abroad, the State Dept is your best resource. ❤️
As a citizen of New Zealand its really hard to get a license to own and keep a gun. You have to pass an interview with the police, have your doctor clear that you don't have to have a history of mental illness, pass a gun handling skills test and reference checks. I know this as I don't have a gun but growing up on a farm my brothers did. We do have low gun crime rates as a result. However to be fair trying to get from a society where gun ownership is widespread and in every ones hand to a state where gun ownership is strictly regulated and controlled is not going to be easy. Passing gun ownership restrictions in the USA will mean that those law abiding citizens who are probably good gun owners will give up their weapons but are those people who are both criminal or irresponsible going to give up their guns as a result of this? Probably not and they are the problem in the first place. And is a society where gun ownership is still widespread but in the hands of the lawless and irresponsible that much safer than where it is more often in the hands of law abiding citizens and less often in the lawless? I'm not sure it is. If you started with a clean slate and only gave weapons to those who were responsible you would have a safe society but that isn't where the US is starting from. Secondly if you do want to be able to remove people's guns the state has to honour its committment to keep its citizens safe. Riots like we have seen in the US over the past two years where shops are looted, vandalised and people are assaulted encourage more people to buy guns, they don't give people confidence to feel safe giving up their weapons.
A very well thought out piece of writing. Well done!